Attack on The World Trade Center

[BurntGSR]

I think it's of utter important that all the parents here take the resposibility to explain these matters to thier children. We can't be ignorant when it comes to things like these. I'm sure this 19 year old guy is probably a good person deep down but combine his ignorance and his mixed emotions and you get a human being that's capable of doing horrific acts.

I'm Mexican American but I always stress I'm AMERICAN and I love my country for all it is, even with its quirks, it's still the best place on earth IMHO.

In Texas I'm hearing Cocktail bombs being thrown at Muslim Masks (spelling?) and kids spitting on little Muslim girls because they're wearing traditional garb. It saddens me nearly as much as our losses so far because if this is our true colors of our country, I'm no longer proud, I'm ashamed. I'm pretty sure this isn't the case with most Americans though. I'm currently explaining to my brother (who didn't grow up as lucky as me and got into gangs, etc.) why the Muslims in the area aren't jerks, where all this stress in the middle east is coming from and what extremist groups are in general. Christians have KKK and such while Muslims have these Terrorist groups.

At first I thought getting a flag would be cheesy to put on my car but I've changed my mind. I'm going to hunt one down tomorrow hopefully. I think my area could use a kick-start. I know my work is putting up a flag on the building soon. My CEO was pissed we hadn't already done it on our own so he's having a huge one ordered. I'll take a pic when it's up.

I think we all see eye to eye on most of this stuff. I think it's just my ability to ruffle feathers pretty easily that gets me in trouble =). Have a good one guys.



------------------
Silvino

[Zeus]

"http://www.msnbc.com/news/627565_asp.htm#BODY"

These "local Terrorists" need be delt with as we now will with any other in this world...



------------------
1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC, 320cc injectors, JR relay removed, B&M CommandFlo
regulator, Fuel bypass mod, Cartech adj. FMU, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to
.005i/.006e, MSD BTM, stock intake w/ITR "cool air" resinator, Clutch
Specialties "chatter clutch", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, ITR
springs, Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar(removed due to mount torn out at
present), ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, 205/50WR/15 Kumho
Supra 712s, KVR Carbon Fibre pads, Super blue dot 4 brake fluid, B&M fuel
pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location
...

YLW 00' Type R #00-1011 with "special tuning" and 143db triple air horns

Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...

[jimbojimbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BurntGSR:
I was completely misunderstood apparently. The main issue I wanted to bring up was that things should be planned well before being done. Going blindly after vegence is ignorance. The repreocussions from such actions would make life worse for us in the US. talking about two sides of an issue isn't being supporting of the actions or assassins. Thinking things through has nothing to do with me being unpatriotic. It's called using your head.

This is my last post in this thread as I don't have all day to explain to the slower readers here where I'm coming from. If you see how much f'ing taxes I pay per year you'd call me Uncle Sams sugar daddy. Don't give me BS about not being patriotic when you've never met me or seen the things I've done for my country. Did you give blood today? Did you donate 1k to the relief fund today? Did you work for a company who's products are being used in military equipment used in this upcoming war? Check yourself before attacking me ok?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Silvino sorry if I misundertsood you. But, thank you for doing all that you're doing to help out. Including giving a more overall view of what might happen if this situation is handled badly in the future and explaining how you feel that this situation could get worse. be safe everyone.

------------------

[blownintegra]

Yeah, let's load all of them into a plane and crash them into Bin Laden's ass!!!

Hee, Hee, Hee

------------------

[BurntGSR]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010911/sftu008_1.html

I wasn't jokin' =).


------------------
Silvino

[JRCivic]

Sil,

You are my friend... and a fellow car enthusiast... however, no matter what kind of "Spin" you try and put on this situation, the fact still remains that we as a country, not to mention the innocent civilians who have lost their lives in this senseless tragedy, DID NOT DESERVE THIS.
Let the blame fall where it really needs to land... on the perpetrators and co-conspirators of this attack. Stop trying to justify this aggression by implying that "we had it coming".
The fact is that we have only intervened in conflicts outside our borders for one of two reasons: We were asked to because the people/country being assaulted were not capable of defending themselves from their attackers, OR the conflict would/could alter our way of life, thus changing our economy and/or the quality of life in this country. We have always been open about the actions that we have taken and been responsible for the long-term results from these actions.
Look at our history: In 1945 we obliterated two Japanese cities with atomic weapons... and the loss of life was enormous. Since that time, we have brought Japan back from the brink of economical ruin by not only loaning them huge sums of money, but helping them establish a solid economical foundation, and then forgiving the load and interest !!! We have done the same with China, Germany, Russia, Viet Nam, The Philippines... and many middle Eastern nations. We defended Kosovo and Bosnia because they are not capable of defending themselves from the tyranny that shadowed them. We defended Kuwait from Iraq because the loss of this country's crude oil control would have affected our economy and our way of life.
This brings us full circle: less than ten years ago, the US financed a freedom fighter to help his rag-tag group of militants to fight a gorilla war against an onslaught of military might from a superpower formerly known as the USSR... this was Russia v. Afganhistan... and the name of this freedom fighter is Osama bin Laden.

This is how we are repaid ???

I, like you, prefer to find a passive way of resolving conflicts... and unfortunately in this case, I see no way in which our response as a country will not be more blood-shed. We have no choice. If we allow these terrorists to go unpunished, and allow their madness to grow... we open ourselves up to ANY other terrorist group who thinks that they can do harm on our shores and then go free. However, if we make a viscious retaliation, not only will it put a dent in the growth of terrorism, it will also make other terrorists think twice before committing these acts to Americans.

As for the so-called "racist" attacks on people of Middle Eastern descent: it is NOT necessarily applicable in this case. It would be different if the nineteen men who committed this hellish attack just popped into our country days before September 11th... however, they lived among us for YEARS !!! Some were neighbors, friendly family men who befriended those around him. One highjacker and his family were "Some of the nicest people in the neighborhood", said by a woman who lived across the street from him in Florida. This erodes one's ability to trust... to look at our neighbor's in the same light. I have neighbors who are of Middle Eastern descent... hell, I worked for a pair of Palestinean brothers for over nine years... and I consider them as close to family as I have without being related... but one cannot help but wonder where an Islamic man's loyalty really lies when he prays to a muslim God, has strong ties to the old country of his ancestors... and lives HERE.
This brings me to another point: If so many "Good" Islamic people live in this country, why are they not outraged by this ??? Why do they not all help our government in any way that they can to bring those responsible for this tragedy to justice... many of them communicate with family and friends in the middle east... I am SURE that these issues would come up in conversation... they should be OUTRAGED by this behavior becuase it threatens the very way of life that they came here to enjoy !!!

Unfortunately, one of the long-term effects of terrorism is to erode the very trust that we share with one another... and sadly... right now it seems to be working. Only time will heal the effects of this devastating event... and taking down a few terrorist madmen and the people who finance them would certainly help "jumpstart" the healing process.
This country needs closure from this incident... and we need it FAST.


------------------



'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph

[JRCivic]

One more thing Silvino...

Although we may have different opinions on this topic...
I am still, and will always be... YOUR FRIEND !!!

------------------



'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph

[DoctorBob]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRCivic:

It would be different if the nineteen men who committed this hellish attack just popped into our country days before September 11th... however, they lived among us for YEARS !!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JRCivic, I think you just effectively defined "evil." They consciously planned to be good neighbors until they had a chance to kill as many people as they could. We can't necessarily identify all such people but we can prevent them from acting and / or succeeding. That gets into discussions of multi-layer security, though....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
This brings me to another point: If so many "Good" Islamic people live in this country, why are they not outraged by this ???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are. Imagine, though, that a group tried to come forward and express their feelings openly. Would they be well received? Tempers are pretty hot, we're all confused and (generic) Americans are not well-versed what's Islam and what's a disgusting perversion and / or political motivations with a thin layer of religionspeak on top.

Regarding the reactionary racist attacks, we've all seen those before and we don't need to enoble them with the title of "terrorist." The example that sticks with me was drunken old man aiming his car at woman of Middle Eastern descent: that's DUI, assault with intent to kill, reckless driving, and who knows what else. These people are _criminals_ and they all need a kick in the balls (or the equivalent...).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
This country needs closure from this incident... and we need it FAST.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We're not going to get it. This is rapidly turning into a military operation and the leadership of the armed services have a responsibility to their commands and to use them effectively.

Remember, also, that this sort of looming build-up puts intense political pressure on the intended "target." It is not infeasible that Afghanistan might cave: "here, you can have him, his people and the money." It _might_ happen....

For my own part, I'm not sure what I'm hoping for. I keep imagine being on one of those planes with my wife and little boys. My judgement tends to cloud up at that point.

--
DoctorBob
"Daddy, what's an enemy?" - four year old son, yesterday.

[90teg]

Hello again Sil,

Sorry if you felt like I put you on the spotlight but I need to back up those who lost a loved one or two. Your first response almost sounds like we deserve this kind of violence because the US is guilty??? Let's assume you had a loved one inside one of the planes that were hijacked or inside the WTC, would your response to the terror have been the same?

I understand some of our political influences were not very moral, but did the United States ever commit terrorism on another country? Did we ever commit mass destruction in a cowardly matter as those terrorist did?

Also do not be afraid of how we are going to deal with it because our government understands the responsibility involved in bringing justice for the terrorist attack. Our government is more evolved and focused on bringing peace and harmany. Just about 95% of the world felt sorry for what happened but you are afraid that we may piss them off by getting revenge?

Just as the other person stated Lybia, which hated us for many years is even sympathizing what happened? Not to mention the fact that the WTC had people that were form other countries like Japan and England.

We CAN NOT tolerate this kind of terrorism or else our enemies will think our nation is weak and vulnarable. This will lead to more destruction and terrorism. I am proud of what our country has acomplished, and I feel safe living here than any other place in the world.

------------------

[90teg]

As for those isolated incidents about the racist people in our country..... What does that have to do with our government being GUILTY???
Everyone is aware that there are many racist people that live here and they will just about find any excuse to justify their need to exercise their brutality. If you think that what happened in the article is crazy, then how would you feel if the local police (or Military police) as in other 3rd world nations were incuraged to beat/kill their own people just because they want freedom?

Have you ever seen what happenes to rebels in Eastern Europe and Middle Eastern who sacrifice their lives for freedom? Those who block Tanks and soldiers from invasion with their own bodies?

If we could help those peole and benefit from it, our country is still GUILTY???

------------------